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Old 27th August 2013   #1
john yates
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Default Best petition for reduced PTS

At the request of Jo may I start this new thread re too many pupies. Am I right in saying this is fundamentally the problem-too many pupies ? Too many pupies born to furnish the life stye of a scumbag who's only interest is an easy buck. Points made already include, licencing, could this be re introduced ? How would it be policed on a daily basis ? As usual no doubt it comes down to money, the vast majority of human kind are driven by money, certainly the pond life we are dealing with so logically the best approach is to substantialy reduce the incentive ! Does this lead back to licensing ? 2016 see's the introduction of mandatory micro chipping, I imagine there's a whole debate just there, my understanding is that the law at present re chipping is useless as even when chipped a stray dog can be refused by the registered owner & the pound / warden can do nothing ? What if the law were changed to state that the registered owner is responsible for the dog regardless, then I guess more stray dogs would be found with a horrible gash in their neck where scumbag had cut out the chip with a stanley knife or even worse the dog is found in a sack in the river. Am I right in thinking that in 2015 we can expect a flood of unwanted dogs before the chipping law kicks in ?
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Old 28th August 2013   #2
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Just checking this has been posted . Any criticisms welcome !
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Old 28th August 2013   #3
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Good post. Something needs to be done, I don't see why anyone with no regard for the animal are allowed to breed! People only care about the money, if we all stick together surely the power to be will have to sit up and listen .
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Old 28th August 2013   #4
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I have had a stressful & depressing day which has given me yet another distressing view of the real situation facing dogs & those trying to help them, it has also bought home to me the lack of unity & awearness of other rescue's ? Just maybe in my reduced state of happiness it is dawning on me why it is proving so difficult to get any kind of petition anywhere close to success ?
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Old 29th August 2013   #5
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Am i the only one who believes that breeding only went nuts when the kennel club arrived with their 'registered puppies'?
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Old 29th August 2013   #6
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Hi John

I share your desperation to deal with the terrible barbaric situation that many dogs find themselves in.

I agree too many dogs are being breed without a thought for the dogs welfare. Too many people take on a dog and decide that itís not for them for whatever reason. Some reasons are genuine and very sad for all concerned others have not had any thought for what a dog needs.

How do we solve the problem? I know the below will be controversial but what we have today simply must not continue. We are not in the dark ages; we are not a third world country this should not be happening.

My view is this is like everything else in society. The law abiding citizens pay for the others. What do I mean by that? We all pay taxes that pay for the police, prisons, social services etc etc. Why should the dog world be any different?

To have a dog you pay a yearly license fee Ė for example £150.00. All dogs are registered and on a central database via the licensing. Most law abiding citizens will pay this money.
There are approx 10.5m dogs in the UK today. If 50% of the owners pay their license fee this brings in revenue to deal with the people should never have access to a dog (or any animal) by enforcing laws relating to animal welfare. If you do not pay your license fee your dog is taken away and re homed.
As with all areas of society there will be exceptions (losing your job etc or re homing and unwanted dog via approval of a rescue), but this should be the norm as if you canít afford the license fee you canít afford a dog. With this money available for rescues it will help the situation. When people have to pay for a dog each year less people will take them on a whim.

If you decide that you donít want your dog anymore and ask for it to be re homed, you are responsible for the kennel fees until your dog is re homed.

Who enforces these laws Ė My view is give the RSPCA the money to enhance what they already have to create a safer environment for our dogs.

Breeders. If you breed a dog you pay a higher license fee as a recognised breeder. A breeder should also be responsible for the dogís welfare for the first 3 years of a dogís life, and yes I mean vets fees too as well as taking a dog back if necessary.
Will this get rid of the back street breeders? The breeders who are approved and licensed should be appreciated and recommended by the RSPCA. If a breeder is not on their web site as a recognised and approved breeder it should ne illegal to purchase a dog from them. Money should be used for publicity to promote this message. For those people that say that you would already know if you were buying from a back street breeder today and know you shouldnít buy the dog and the reasons why , I can promise this is not the case intelligent animal loving people buy these dogs all the time without realising what they are doing.

If you are not going to breed your dog it should be it should be spayed/castrated within the first 2 years and a vets certificate at vaccination to say that the dog has not had a litter in that time. When the dog is spayed/ castrated the vet sends a letter to the central database to say this has been done. I know there are differing views on this but the alternative is what we have today or perhaps there is a middleground I havent thought of.

Insurance & chipping mandatory. Chipping info should have owner & breeder info on.

Sorry if this has offended anyone but my only thought is for the 11500 dogs PTS every year for no reason and for the dogs who are treated so badly while they are still alive.
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Old 29th August 2013   #7
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WOW thank you Angela, thats what I call a response ! Every word makes sense to me but I'm sure there will be some back lash but at least its a base for discussion ! Lets keep it going please.
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Old 29th August 2013   #8
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Like you both I'm in constant despair over the dog situation. The only thing I would say is this- if you make it anything other than simple for feckless people to put their unwanted dogs into rescue they will just kill them barbarically. Once it was generally known RSPCA would take a dog. Because they are overwhelmed and won't, a lot of people are confused over rescues/pounds. These are people with chaotic lives themselves often. Hence Freeads, Gumtree etc...
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Old 29th August 2013   #9
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Nothing will change until the politicians do something about enforcing the existing laws, and introduce new ones to ban all breeding for several years.
Nothing will change until the hell-hole puppy farms are shut down.
Nothing will change while a large percentage of society is as it is; the whole attitude to animal welfare is wrong. All they see is a commodity to be used to make a quick buck, not a living breathing creature capable of feeling distress and pain.

To have a dog you pay a yearly license fee – for example £150.00. All dogs are registered and on a central database via the licensing. Most law abiding citizens will pay this money.
If this was the case we would have to give up our 6 dogs, there's no way we could afford that amount on our pensions. As it is our dogs want for nothing - plus we are able to help others by fostering.
And I should add that 4 of ours are rescues, so would only add to their problems.

My view is give the RSPCA the money to enhance what they already have to create a safer environment for our dogs.
If the RSPCA dipped into their tens of millions already in the bank - and did something to help that would make a change.

A breeder should also be responsible for the dog’s welfare for the first 3 years of a dog’s life, and yes I mean vets fees too as well as taking a dog back if necessary.
My pups were adopted with a lifetime guarantee of backup (in fact I'm proud to say that I was exceeding the KC Breeders Scheme years before it was thought of), and the adopters signed a contract agreeing to that. There will always be some breeders who "don't want to know", but most will take their dogs back.

If you are not going to breed your dog it should be it should be spayed/castrated
Absolutely agree, if only from the health aspect.
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Old 29th August 2013   #10
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Jaycee good point about the licence cost to someone like yourself, multiple dog licence ? I'm trying to imagine how the scumbags would use that to their advantage ? From these few replies it seems to be a question of law, we all agree the law has no teeth. When in 2016 microchips become law how will they be policed & what will be done when an owner is stopped with a dog with no chip ? My personal opinion of this jaw is clever political spin as responsible owners would do it anyway - wouldn't they ? As stated we need to be careful as if too draconian we will find dead dogs cropping up in every layby along roads all over the country. Also if the laws cost too much to implement they will quickly flounder ? RSPCA controversial to say the least, are they a classic example of an authority that has grown too big ? I think it's fair to say without them we would have a very bad situation to deal with
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Old 29th August 2013   #11
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Nothing will change until the politicians do something about enforcing the existing laws, and introduce new ones to ban all breeding for several years.
Nothing will change until the hell-hole puppy farms are shut down.
Nothing will change while a large percentage of society is as it is; the whole attitude to animal welfare is wrong. All they see is a commodity to be used to make a quick buck, not a living breathing creature capable of feeling distress and pain.


I agree, Jenny.

An annual licence fee of £150 - I agree if this money would be used for the benefit of dog registration and welfare. A multiple dog licence is also a good idea. We probably wouldn't have four dogs if there weren't as many dogs in rescue.

A breeder should also be responsible for the dog’s welfare for the first 3 years of a dog’s life, and yes I mean vets fees too as well as taking a dog back if necessary. - A breeder should be responsible for any dog they have bred for the duration of it's life.

If you are not going to breed your dog it should be it should be spayed/castrated - Agree, exceptions only on health grounds.
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Old 29th August 2013   #12
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Julie, thanks for your response, breeders being responsible for their dogs for life will I imagine get a reaction but I agree, this might go some way to reduce numbers & improve blood lines ? If I were to build a bicycle ( as I often do ) with a life time guarantee I would build it well in the 1st place for obvious reasons. changing people's attitude to animal welfare ! Thats a tough one, people want a cheep steak but the only way to get a cheep steak is to accelerate the growing time at a reduced cost = inhumane conditions from calf to supermarket. The scumbag backstreet breeders wont be persuaded to do whats right for the dogs involved, they have no heart or soul, they only have habits to feed so want easy money. As I drove my girls to the vet just now I concluded in my mind the only way to deal with such people is a solid law that is unbending & suported from start to finish
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Old 30th August 2013   #13
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Just joined the dog rescue federation in a further effort to learn more facts a figure's in the fight for our 4 legged friends, any more thoughts arguments, observations from previous posts ?
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Old 31st August 2013   #14
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I was told about a little staffy boy today who came into the kennels while the owner had the house decorated, that as in May ! He was fine wnen he arrived but just lately has gone off the rails with the stress of kennel life ( these are nice kennels I must point out ) he is now aggressive in the kennels but fine when away from them, the little fella was chipped & when the registered owner was contacted the owner of the kennels was told the dog was no good for what he wanted so was sold on and again and then again ! Now he is going to Battersea on wednesday, what are his chances I wonder, another victim of scum ! It sounds like he was initially not up to fighting ? Now he's fighting for his young life ! I saw a tee shirt once that said the more people meet the more I love my dog how true that is becoming for me I'm afraid ?
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Old 2nd September 2013   #15
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Poor boy, will he stand any chance in Battersea if he is aggressive in kennels. Could a plea for foster help this boy? I despair of people. My niece helps a gentleman out by going into his house and letting his dogs out throughout the day He works 12 hour shift and keeps a mum and son staffi in a crate together. The mum is two years old and the son is 10 months, neither have been neutered! My niece has told him that he needs to separate the dogs, that they could fight,mate and in a crate. She is so worried about them, that she goes in at least three times a day, despite her being a single working mum with her own dog. She has now told him unless he separates them she will no longer help him. I don't know what is wrong with people.
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Old 7th October 2013   #16
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please join dog rescuefederation .org one voice may be heard well done john for joining lets work together for change
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